Episode 20 - Telling Africa’s Story Through Africa’s Fashion with Didier de Villiers
In this podcast we talk to Dider de Villiers, the visionary behind one of South Africa’s leading fashion brands: Magents. In the years following apartheid, Magents stood out as a uniquely African brand committed to sharing the story of the continent through their expression of fashion. Didier shares with us how Magents has remained focused on celebrating African culture in fashion, despite expanding sales and production to a global audience. We also hear from Didier about the challenges, and the rewards, of being a voice for God’s justice, love and truth in the fashion industry.
Episode Transcript
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Jacktone: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Africa podcast, where we spotlight the voices of entrepreneurs and innovators shaping the marketplace across the continent. This week we are featuring Didier de Villiers. Didier believes that what we wear says a lot about who we are. He's the man behind Magents, one of South Africa's leading fashion brands. The clothing company came about in the early nineties when his country was reeling from the end of apartheid and rediscovering itself as a nation. Didier saw creative expression as a way to heal wounds, bring unity and form a uniquely South African identity. He used his God given gifts of design to create clothing that captured the spirit of the South African youth. The brand spread beyowe had our firsthis home and beyond the African continent, garnering attention from more traditional fashion hotspots in Europe and the United States. But Didier never lost his vision, a relentless commitment to telling the African story through uniquely African streetwear. He joins us today to talk about this story and how art has the power to bring people together, shape identities and influence culture.
Ndidi Nwuneli: Welcome back to Faith Driven Entrepreneur Africa Podcast. I am so excited to be joined by the visionary behind this podcast and my co-host, Henry. Welcome, Henry.
Henry Kaestner: Ndidi. Thank you. It's great to be with you. I don't know how much of a visionary I am. I just am a person like you who really likes to hear people's stories and really likes to hear particularly about stories, about how people have sought out God for the problems that they see in the marketplace and asked for his strength to get out there and make it happen. And we've got a great one today. We've got we've got Didier, who we're going to call Didi, even though it sounds like a name that's similar to yours. And it might create some confusion with our audience. But Didi de Villiers is a man in fashion. And we know that fashion is such a big industry worldwide. We've never had anybody on the program from fashion in any of the different podcasts we've had. And yet when we hear from God about the things that were to help people with before we share the gospel, like for instance, we're supposed to help them with food if they're hungry, if they need shelter, if they need clothing. We need to be able to address those needs. And then with that, we have a chance to share the reason for the hope we have with gentleness and respect. And so that's a pretty big category clothing, fashion or all those things we haven't addressed at all. And we've got a great person to do that. And so Didi thank you for joining. Love to hear, as we do with all of our guests. A bit of an autobiographical flyover before we get more into the just the essence of what God's doing through you right now. So who are you and where do you come from?
Didier de Villiers: Well, I'm basically in fashion, you know, that's my job. Recently we moved we bought a farm here in the [.....] area and we living sort of against the mountain here. So it's really, really amazing to wake up and see this every morning and, you know, be very thankful. There's a lot a lot of work to be done. But we are going to set up our warehouse and our showroom and everything on the farm and then sort of make it a lifestyle we've extended recently. We've extended the lifestyle to olive oil and some wine and some [...] you guys would know that is maybe champagne or sparkling wine. And so this area lends itself to that. And we also have a nice orchard on the farm where we're going to harvest our first this very month. Yeah. So I've grown up in South Africa and I lost my parents, my father when I was seven and my mother when I was 15 and early in my life. Obviously after that was a major shift and I became sort of a rebel at that stage. I wanted to be a professional tennis player and I was going to go to Florida to school there, and only my mother and I and the coach knew about it. So when she passed, obviously your whole world sort of collapses, you know? And I started to ask the question, you know, what is the meaning to life and who am I question and so on. And they sent me to a boys school far, far away from where I lived. And then you have to sort of discover who I am now you know, so you accept what has happened to you. But I somehow I mean, God to me then was sort of religion, I would say, you know. And so of course I went to church when I was a kid and so on. But it was more you do right and you do wrong, and then God would say, okay, you, you're not so bad or whatever. And then you go to heaven and then I [....] but the outside of that, I was completely separate in my mind. I thought that, you know, it must be a link to sort of super knowledge that you can tap into and then you can understand what life is about. And I mean, I read books like it with Bono, lateral thinking and so on and so on. But I never thought that that link is through faith in Christ, through faith in God. And when I was about 21 years old, I started straight away, straight off the army, and we had to do two years service. And I started to say to myself, well, you know, I looked at life and I had some other business things that I started doing. And I was just like, If this is what life is about, a rather start to search for truth now, and I want to see what Christianity really is about. And I started to go to different churches and so on and so on. And then suddenly God just grabbed me and I was completely blown away that the answer is in him. And I remember I started reading chapters like Romans seven, and I couldn't understand, you know, I didn't have a pastor or somebody that guided me. I just took the Bible and I started reading. And I was so blown away by I was very much into philosophy and so on. And I could not believe what I was reading, you know. And then I just got stuck into it. And eventually I started studying theology as well. And I spent three years studying while I was working part time and I was still I'm so blessed and so amazed at God every day. You know, it's really been an amazing journey since then.
Henry Kaestner: So tell us. So you've got this really unique entrepreneurial background and service and that you make African streetwear. And I've got to tell you that I'm not 100% sure I know what American streetwear is. And so help us to envision this. You might have some of that on right now, but most of people will engage with this on the audio portion. What is streetwear and then what is uniquely African streetwear?
Didier de Villiers: Yeah. So you know what guys do? Mostly retail retailers, they sort of categorize certain styles. So you've got [...] and you've got premium denim and you've got urban. The guys used, say, urban, and then you get streetwear and so on. But streetwear has changed so much in the past couple of years that you get high end brands that also sort of tap into that market and then maybe do a collab with other streetwear brands. And it's not like it's a surfing brand. You might know the surfing brands in America, it's more sort of just tee shirts, surf shorts and so on. But streetwear is actually starts from the shoes up. So you get from just normal stuff to really designer stuff. And what we do is we design all in-house from beginning to end and it's basically like hoodies and t shirts and jackets and denim and sweats and of course, sneakers as well.
Ndidi Nwuneli: So what led you into fashion? You found your faith and then God called you to fashion. Is that how it happened?
Didier de Villiers: Yeah. Well, actually, as a kid, I always loved fabric and I always my mom was a crazy dresser, and she used to travel a lot and then she would bring back these bags and these crazy stuff. And I used to love it, and I used to love the sound of certain fabrics and even the smell and so on. I really enjoyed fashion, but also fabrics and yeah, so I started with doing t shirts in those days from China and then it just grew in and I started a tailoring store that we did dresses for other designers, and then suddenly you see your design on a Sunday newspaper that some celebrity is wearing. And I just started to play more and more and more because, you know, you sort of build up your confidence because you don't sort of know that you have what it takes to have a brand. Yes so after that, actually in high school, me and a couple of other guys, we started to think, why don't we start a store called Magents? And the store will cater only for us. In other words, you know, those days it was obviously the adults running the stores and they didn't necessarily know what the kids wanted. So we thought, why don't you start a store and then you call it Magents? And then we incorporate all the different brands in there and we stock only what we like and what we enjoy. And later, after my Army service, I don't know where any of those guys are today, but after that I thought to myself, Why not start a brand called Magents? Now, in those days it was around about 91. And so and I asked many, many people on the streets, what would you think of starting an African brand and 99.99% and this is across the board, all cultures and so on. They said it's a stupid idea who would buy an African brand and so on, you know, so but it just stuck to me and God just kept on putting it in my heart. And I felt, I felt like a vibe, you know, and, and a certain creativity that just sort of bursted out when I thought of doing it. And then I registered the brand and yeah. So from then on just, I mean, I didn't know how are you going to, how are you going to manage the brand? How are you going to do? I didn't have any guidance. There weren't any other African designers that I can go and call on and say, how do you do it? And so on and so on. Not even speaking about international, you know, it was sort of a hit and miss, but I did what I love. South Africa was, of course, we came through a period of apartheid and it was very stiff, very, you can say controlled and so on. It's almost to say like the Germans used to be, but it was really hard. You know, the guys didn't play around the government. But then when Nelson Mandela came along and other leaders, it just changed everything. We had our first democracy in 94 and what happened then is firstly in music, the guys just started to express themselves and they started a whole new genre called Kwaito music and. And they just did what they want to do and they just sang and it was completely a different sound. So in fashion, Magents was the brand that started to express itself. So there were many elements in the area of common grace that God has blessed South Africa with. I mean, there was no war, there was no bloodshed, and there was a lot of forgiveness and love and neighborly things in the air that was amazing in that period. And really we are so blessed to have been part of it. So we just started to express ourselves, for instance, president after Nelson Mandela. His name is Thabo Mbeki. He had a speech called I'm an African, you must google that is a very beautiful speech. And that inspired us to put just African but nobody has done that because you're like, why do you want to do who's going to wear that? You know, so and but again, it was just that feeling like this is right and let's just do it. And you can sort of play around, you know, with what you want to do. You didn't want to follow European fashion or American. You just did what you loved. Yeah. So we did that. And you'll be surprised how many I mean, a lot of guys came and white guys, black guys, brown guys, all sorts just came and sort of celebrated that Africanness. That was really amazing to see that. And they did that through clothing. Of course, we enjoy expressing ourselves through clothes, you know. So that was amazing, period.
Ndidi Nwuneli: I love that you went from a period when 99% of people told you this wouldn't work and it wasn't didn't make any sense. So sticking with it and then being at the right place at the right time when the industry was ready for you. What kept you during those periods of doubt? Because many of the listeners, you know, have ideas that God has placed on them, but they just the noise and the opposition kills the idea. What kept you through those dark days?
Didier de Villiers: You know, I sort of never got despondent, as if God just placed it in your life and you just followed it. I never doubted it or so you know, I just kept on going. And I mean, to give you an idea. So these South African clothing stores were mainly run by either and this is our context. You know, America, you guys might find some of the things strange or whatever, but we have 11 different cultures. So clothing stores were mostly run by either Indian guys or Jewish guys. Okay? So they were sort of equating the market, so they had all the stores and so on, but a lot of the guys didn't understand what was going on on the streets. They don't understand the excitement, the amazingness that it was a new breeding of people that came together. So it was there was something in there in those days and they didn't get it. They were like, Why do you want to call it Magents? Some of the guys even went as far as saying, but it's they want to say so black or they want to say so. This is one magazine says, is it is it a black or is it a white brand? You know, so stuck in color. We just went through that. Why do you want to go back there? So we said, you know, as an orange brand, I mean, it was all logos orange, you know. So just to show the person how damaged they are through this period that you think of people in terms of color. And I know I think in America you go through a lot of this right now. But yes, I mean, sometimes some of those things just return into history, you know, and I think sometimes we ourselves haven't learned that lesson well enough. But yeah, so we just kept on going. And then we did our first international show in Vegas in 2003. And the international market, I mean, you get people from all over the world there and they were just blown away and they're like, What? You can't believe you're getting recognized. And these guys go crazy about it. Then your own people back home. And that was very exciting. So we opened our first retail store in 99 and after 2003 we just said, okay, let's go, let's open the second one, a third one, the fourth one and so on. And yeah, so that's what we've done. But it's I think sometimes you if you don't get that recognition at home and you go abroad and you get so much love from the people, you're like, okay, maybe we're on the right track. Because to them it was new. It wasn't like that brand or that brand and so on. Because again, we just designed what we thought is right and what we like, you know. So I think the guys saw through that with hindsight and yeah, so they really inspired us.
Henry Kaestner: In 2009 you got approached by a giant global brand, but you made a decision to focus your attention back on Africa and you brought your head offices in all the manufacturing home. And in interviews you said that that part of the decision came the idea of character overruling profits. What did that mean? What does that mean?
Didier de Villiers: So our first international in the western side, international distribution started in France, and we got into really top end boutiques and they also immediately just accepted us. And so and it started rolling and we got into other stores, we got into Japan and Canada and so on, and then we started to slip into America. And of course we didn't really know how to do it. We didn't do it the right way. But a massive, beautiful store group in the States approached us and says, Look, we really want you in our stores and so on. So on. But we got advice from someone and they said, look, why but you don't manufacture in Africa, you are an Africa brand. Why don't you manufacture in Africa? And that sort of set with me and in the team. We had to make a major call. We got offers from guys and they were like, Why do you want to stop? Because we wanted to go back to South Africa and then start to train factories in Africa how to make a premium garment. And that in itself, of course, the guys over there said, look, man, we'll give you a massive to us. It's massive to you guys. It's good to us. It was amazing. And that was we wanted to buy into the brand. There's lots of money that's going to flow in and so on and so on. But as a South African, you find that most often international guys don't understand the significance of what has happened here. First of all, I'm a white dude and the name of Magents is really started in a majority of circle of black environments. So the name means the guys. So as I say to you guys by guys, although there's a lady present, she would not be offended. She would understand what I mean by guys. It doesn't mean that she's male or, you know. So in a certain way Magents is the same thing. So we have to make a call and say, imagine that brother or sister back home is feeling that this is his or her brand and they really love that they can be expressed through the brand and all of a sudden you sell the brand out to somebody else because we had to pull somebody in to handle that, pick a group. And then when you pull in that group, they're going to take over like 51% of the company. And then they won't make it. They won't respect the history and the ethos and the DNA of the brand where it's coming from. So then we have to make a massive call to go back to Africa and say, let's put the money aside and let's think of that dude, that brother, that sister in Africa that's going to be hurt by that. Imagine once again, it's I might see it as again, as a white dude that's selling us out and so on, you know. So we had to, if it was another name, I mean, it would have been another story, but we didn't want to cause further hurt in guys lives. So we took a massive decision and it was a joyful decision, difficult, a financially difficult distribution wise, because we had to stop everything. And then we closed our office in our head office was in Paris. We closed the office in Paris. Of course, the French send these guys, they completely went crazy and went mad and thought we nuts and they couldn't understand that thing, you know. So but the amazing thing is that God sort of on your journey and your ups and downs, what God really wants to do is you want to build character. I mean, as believers, you have an amazing place waiting. You have a mansion waiting for you. There's so much we already know that. So you don't rush after possessions or you don't rush after. I mean, finances are important and business finds it very important, but you don't make that your main. And I believe that character is what God's purpose is in your life, in your journey. So kindness, patience, love, joy, self-control and so on. For those things to be shaped and on the journey, it's important that in your life that that also flows over in others life, but you inspire others on that journey as well.
Ndidi Nwuneli: I love this message about character. I think it's so important. And I'm just curious, you know, you heard the voices of people back home in your heart. How did you stay close to that pulse to hear that voice saying, you know, this is important to have a presence in Africa. I mean, what connections that you have or what source of information or stimulus really stood in your head? Because it's quite unusual. Sometimes as entrepreneurs, we wonder are we catering to shareholder value. Is it our customers that dictate? In this case, you are talking about the heritage, the heritage spoke to you. And I'm just wondering, how do you distill that? How would you distill between the voices and how do you determine who has the strongest influence on your character?
Didier de Villiers: You know, when I go say to Europe and I travel back the moment I go through passport control, these are words umfowethu in Zulu, it means brother. But it's far deeper than that because even culturally there's a depth of emotion that maybe the West do not really have or do not have as strongly as in Africa. There's this brotherhood. When I say brotherhood, I mean brothers and sisters. There's this depth that doesn't leave you. It doesn't leave a lot of guys that leave, say, South Africa when they thought it's going to go crazy, mate. I didn't feel that then. But you often when we speak to, say, ex-pats, they yearn to come back to feel that love. You know, these are and of course, this is in the area of a common grace, mostly not in saving grace. So God really allows even the unsaved to experience this character in some way and to feel it and to see it, you know, even though they might not recognize it as this person and as his character, he graciously allows people to experience that. So I think in that area in South Africa, that was really prominent. It was deep. And yeah so I just love Africa and I love the people in Africa. And I love the diversity. I love the struggles that we go through. You know, in South Africa alone, as I said, we've got 11 cultures. You can imagine 11 cultures with different things and different loves and different likes. But we love each other and we love the unity, but we also love the diversity and we embrace the diversity. So if somebody is Zulu, it's one of those English, Afrikaans, whatever. We embrace all the different cultures. You know, there are times that we sort of almost play the victim when we are weak. So we would blame the colonizers. We would blame this and that. But often you find that beauty that flows through where that love comes through, where that love breaks through. And that is really amazing to experience. And I don't know, it's just that Africa has got a place in my heart that I cannot just [...].
Henry Kaestner: That's super encouraging to hear. And I think that we all I think that there's something that God put in all of us that yearns for that type of belonging and brotherhood. And as I listen to this, I find myself yearning for that type of community as well and makes me want to come back to Cape Town and root for the Springboks again. I want to take this conversation in a slightly different direction, which is back to the fashion part. This is an overgeneralization I got to be really careful here, but a lot of times fashion is not thought of as being an industry, and maybe this is just our blind spot because we haven't covered it by our own admission when we start off the podcast but is not thought of as an industry, that's one where lots and lots of Christians very motivated by their faith and a desire to know God and make him known or found. There's some amount of just being really in culture at the time. There's some amount of fashion being leading edge. The more skin that's shown, the better type of thing. And again, my generalizations here, convicting me and you're about through your answer here, you're about to correct me and any other folks that are thinking this way. But talk to us about being a faith driven figure in your industry and what that looks like. And then other advice that you give other Christians that are stepping into the creative industries as well, fashion or otherwise.
Didier de Villiers: Yeah. You know, it's true what you say. I mean, I think you would say the same as rock and roll and hip hop and so on. You find a lot of pride, arrogance and drugs and so on in the scene and you in the middle of it, you know, so you are there to be a light and God gives opportunities. I mean, I can't tell you how many guys I've spoken to, not as to convert them or whatever, but we just have a truth conversation about what is life about, you know, and it's beautiful. I mean, often guys would I mean, your parents, for instance, they would say, you know, those guys are bad and they look terrible and look at them and so on. But these are just genuine people that also need the truth and also need God, and they just don't know, you know, and maybe they have certain perceptions about what life is about. I mean, but who are we to say that we haven't had that? You know, it's just more, I think, more expressive in fashion. But I'm a believer and I'm a believer that design that's doing a brand. So when we express ourselves, for instance, you guys now know the MeToo movement and all that sort of stuff, but way before that we express things about gender violence. So we have discussions with women, many women, and we cried. I mean, I remember one conversation cried for about 3 hours with the lady that was raped by big boys that we all know around the world, you know, and we've had discussions with men that were fashion models and they had been sexually molested and so on. And through that, God is putting that in your path and you can beautifully speak into that life, but also you can express on the ram the issues that are out there that people don't speak. And yeah, so through fashion, although it sounds like and of course it is, there's a lot of arrogance and pretense and so on in fashion, but there's also an opportunity to speak out. We had, for instance, one teacher that just said forgive. And, you know, I was in those days I was still manufacturing in Vietnam and the Vietnamese guy was sitting at the table and I explained to them the graphic and whatever and the T-shirt and the design. We gave him all the information. And I say, But guys, why would they so slow? So he said to me, Didi, forgive. So he understood the message, you know, so it got through to him. So yeah. So it was good to get that back, you know. So there's lots of opportunity and so yeah, so those things we find opportunities in fashion that we can really got there.
Ndidi Nwuneli: Really. You actually exemplify what we call redemptive entrepreneurship. Truly, truly remarkable. I mean, you've just walked us through the entire business model of fashion from your mindset as a designer to making sure that the factories are not only employing decent people and paying them decent wages, but also setting a culture of excellence and a culture of ownership and love, which is blessing people. And you're shaping an industry. I mean, the courage that you've just exemplified through your life is truly remarkable. And I'm sure the listeners are in awe like, I am, as you've described some of the difficult tests you've taken on and how you've essentially helped people come to salvation and to know themselves through very, very difficult conversations. So much to unpack there. We just don't have enough time. But if I could take on one question as we wrap up. It's really the courage to swim against the tide, because, you know, this is an industry that is going through a revolution, and especially streetwear, with a link to the rap culture, the link to, you know, where do you get the courage every day to swim against the tide in your industry and to take on those difficult conversations?
Didier de Villiers: You know, surprisingly, I think a lot of guys are open for that conversation. I mean, not maybe corporates and corporates would say one on one. Maybe the director would say to you, yeah, yeah, yeah, we with you. But I'm not sure that when they in the boardroom that they have the courage to stand up and say, enough. This is enough. A lot of guys in South African context say they want to do good, but again, it's just marketing. For instance, we have the thing that we call a BEE, which means you've got to employ more people of color, but it just doesn't happen that fast. And when it happens, the guys that are put into certain positions, they are not equipped and people expect them to be equipped immediately, which is impossible. You know, there's a period we go to not have a short term vision is going to be a 30, 40, 50 year vision instead of just they've got a platform right now. You know, we got to start somewhere. And, you know, and as a white person in South Africa and as a believer, you've got to say, but what is love? What is love in this context? And you've got to sort of dive into that other person's life and not think that you understand it, but try to listen and try to grasp what it means to them and then see how you can help. And in that context, again, our purpose here is not to gather as much as we can, but to see, where God is placed you in his providence and then to go out and love first, love him first, but also love those around you and then apply it. What is the significance of love in your context? Yeah, so I think that's a big part of what we aim to do. Of course, we fail again and again every day, but we keep on reminding ourselves and we [...] and I speak. We keep on coming back to that. And he would correct me, I would correct him. And we have lots of discussions about these things around the table cause him and I are in charge of the design, so we go to set the direction. So yeah, it's a lot of fun, a lot of excitement, a lot of things that are happening. Also tears and honesty. And so and they're just flowing, flowing in, you know, naturally. So we re really blessed to be part of this journey.
Henry Kaestner: Didi, I'm grateful for your time. I'm grateful for your faithfulness and being such a great voice for the gospel and for justice and just an inspiration in the fashion industry and in South Africa and just around the world. And you've done it for a long time and we're all encouraged by it. One of the things that we like to do or the thing we'd like to do as we close out, every one of our podcast interviews is with a belief that God's word is alive, and he speaks to us through the Bible, and his word is ask our guests if there's something recently that they feel that God has spoken to them about through His Word. And maybe it's today, maybe it's something last week or some other time. But what have you heard from God through his word?
Didier de Villiers: You know, recently I'm going through the thing that's part of all of us that you get these ideas in your mind and then you sort of somebody say something to you and then you take that words, those words that they were saying, and then somehow you twist the meaning of those words, and then you take that as truth. And it took me back to Genesis three, where the snake came to Eve, and he said, What did he really say? You may not eat of any of these trees, you know? And she was like she corrected him, said no. He said, only that one tree that we have the knowledge of good and evil. And then he said, But I but you know what? If you do, then you can become like God and you will know this and that and the other, and it sort of twist it. And what she did, she took it. She loved the tree and she forgot completely about what God said, forgot about that, pushed it out of the way, and then even influenced Adam and Adam as a man. He didn't stand his ground and say, No, that is wrong. I'm not going to do it. So it is as if, as woman, you naturally have that some desire. No. And I believe it's like it's sort of in the old man and of course, also in the flesh. But you come and you you sort of want to twist, to control, and the man is irresponsible. We just want to not cause a scene or whatever, just like, okay, let's just do it. Let's just do this. And we don't take ownership and don't take leadership, you know, so God is really speaking to me and that because I am weak in that area, so there are often that I'm like, okay, let's just go, let's just overlook it and just go on and not be firm and say, No, it's not right. Let's go to this. Even if it your wife, even if it's your kids or your partners, whoever yeah. So that is something that I'm studying at the moment that I'm going through and trying to apply in my life in all areas.
Henry Kaestner: Yeah, that's a great word. Is great word encouragement for me. What is culture telling me that surely God isn't trying to tell you that you can't do this or that you should do that. So that's a great encouragement for me and all of our audience. So thank you for being with us. Ndidi, as always, just great doing this with you.
Didier de Villiers: Thank you, guys. Thank you so much. It's awesome to be here and I hope I meet all of you in person one day and come to Cape Town, you’re welcome here.
