Episode 36 - Rebuilding Rwanda After Genocide with Robert Bayigamba

How do you rebuild a company and your faith in the wake of immense tragedy?

For Robert Bayigamba, this was not a mental exercise.

Robert began leading Manumetal Ltd, a manufacturing firm in Rwanda following the country’s horrific 1994 genocide. He took over during a time when inventory had been looted and employee numbers were decimated.

But through integrity and good work, Robert has grown the company and now even holds majority ownership. 

He joins the show today to share his inspiring and challenging story of faith, discipline, and restoration.

Make sure to follow the show for more great content from global leaders and give us a rating if you enjoyed the content.

Episode Transcript

Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.

Ndidi Nwuneli: Welcome to the Faith Driven Investor Africa Podcast. My name is Ndidi Nwunelii and I'm so delighted to be joined by Chinny, Chinny welcome.

Chinny: Thank you. Great to be here.

Ndidi Nwuneli: It's a pleasure to have you as my co-host today. And I know you've been doing great work with the community in Nigeria. And we have a very special guest with us today. Robert, welcome.

Robert Bayigamba: Thank you very much Ndidi.

Ndidi Nwuneli: Such a great pleasure to have you, Robert. Dialing in from Rwanda. And I know you're such a proud Rwandan, Robert, you are the chairman of the Rwanda Association of Manufacturers, the former chairman of the Rwanda Private Sector Federation. You know, your resumé goes so long. President of the National Olympic and Sports Committee of Rwanda. And, you know, you've seen the country go through massive changes in the last few decades coming out of the genocide. We would love to kick out from that perspective what has helped Rwanda rebuild from the tragic events it went through in the 1990s? I've been to Rwanda many times and each time is such a breath of fresh air. And as an African, I'm so proud of the progress Rwanda has made. It is a beacon of hope for all of us. So as you reflect on that journey, what would you say has really enabled Rwanda to thrive in spite of its very dark history?

Robert Bayigamba: Yeah. I think two things. One being leadership. Amazing leadership that has helped Rwanda to find home grown solutions to the major challenges. That's basically that's because when I look back and I see, for example, how to handle the genocide criminals, how to try to find reconciliation, the gacaca, which is a popular justice, has helped a lot to reduce or to ease the tension among our population. So homegrown solution to the challenges we have had, then I can enumerate many, many of them.

Ndidi Nwuneli: It's so heartwarming to see the role of entrepreneurs such as yourself. Obviously, this is a show about entrepreneurship and innovation. What role have entrepreneurs played in this transformation in Rwanda and what catalytic support systems have enabled them to thrive?

Robert Bayigamba: Resilience, supports, working together with a society. We have had the chance to have regular meetings together to find solutions to the challenges. You know that we are a small country. landlock to the sea. But believe me or not, we think that we are [....] to the sea because we have territories that are also markets. So from the challenge we transformed. It is an opportunity. That's how we started talking French and English, even Swahili. To be able to communicate, with the region very few countries around trilingual, meaning French, English and Swahili and even mother tongue, which is Kinyarwanda, which is a one example, the third one is the strong support from the government. We have institutions like the National Industrial and Research Development Agency, the Rwandan Development Board. We have several other entities and even non-for-profit organizations from kind of like [BPN], business partners network organizations like Bigger Future that have helped us to think differently. I've been through, for example, of course, of Bigger Future, where in fact, change of mind how to look ten years ahead and change yourself. First, think not as an entrepreneur, but as a person, because if now today we are on 2023 and then I want to be successful in 2030 or 2033, I need to be, first of all, in good health. So how you first of all, you take care of yourselves before getting there. And that's how maybe some of us became even spiritually, more fit, because that's also the way to have a good balance and to see things differently.

Chinny: Thank you so much, Robert. I loved that. Think first as a person and then as an entrepreneur. I think that's something that everybody can go away with. You know, when I think about your story, it mirrors what happened in Rwanda so nicely. And our team actually interviewed you sometime ago. We're going to release a video later on. But, you know, just thinking about it, the fact that you experienced this tragedy personally, you know, these days we use the word tragic. So in such a broader fashion, you know, you go to the restaurant, you get bad food and you say, see what's tragic, or you go to a fashion show and you say the fashion was tragic, you know, but people need to understand this was an actual tragedy. And somehow you are standing here today having experienced things that nobody wants to experience, really. So could you just take us through some of that? We know your story is so powerful and so profound and maybe we should just back up a little bit to pre all of this pre 1994 when you were working with Manumetal, Right. And then when it happened and how you got here to do that.

Robert Bayigamba: In fact, before the genocide I was not working in Manumetal, I was in fact upcountry in the north east leading the [Rice Hill], position was a co-operative funded by or supported by a Canadian funded organization. And we had 250 hectares of land, a rice field and then also a research center, multiply seeds, 460 cooperatives members. Then that's when we realized, like working together towards that really it was an interesting project of development, where you see changes with very small rice growers different challenges. Rwanda was just before the genocide. People should understand that genocide is just only the tip of the iceberg. Of course, to get to that level, things will [...] under the surface. So issues of inequalities in terms of getting jobs and issues of inequalities between genders, ladies is always behind, regional differences, difficulties to get a passport, to get your rights, even a driving license. we have to battle to give you just my own experience. I finished a major in my high school, one of the prominent school in Rwanda, and then I couldn't get a space university scholarship while I was the major. So meaning to the top of the class just because I was not coming from the right region of the country. And then I was at that time, even with the national team. So I was so proud. At the given time, I was thinking that maybe one of the government wants me to stay in Rwanda, not getting a scholarship outside the country because they want me to keep playing for the national team. I was proud, but no. Then, even for the National University of Rwanda, I didn't get a space. That's how I kind of those like a wake up call because I had the parents who is in good situation. I was kind also a little bit not very [....] in the situation, but when that happened to me, I was like 20 years old. I understood the magnitude of [....] and that's how things started.

Chinny: So how did you get into Manumetal?

Robert Bayigamba: So what happened? Because, in fact, things were getting worse, worse and worse. And then, of course, starting shooting of opponents. And then they were starting like blocking roads and one day, I said my wife was [.....] because it was difficult to live where I was working. And then I was driving home on Monday morning, coming back on Friday and stay the week at that home. And then I said to myself, one day I woke up to come to [.....]. So I would not be able to come and be with my family. So then I decided to start searching for a job. Then by someone who was subcontracted where we work in Belgium, connected me to Belgium [....] Manumetal at the time. And then I went for interviews three months before genocide. It was in February, and then we agreed that I started the 1st of May 94, and then everything happened internationally may have been saved twice due to the fact that people recognize me as a sportsperson. So we flee to Burundi and then I did a U-turn. I came back, no. So I was reading the messages I got through during the War of Liberation convinced me that it is right that I want to come back and rebuild the country for them. So that's how I came back to Rwanda. And it is very interesting coincidence that the then CEO of Manumetal happen to know that I was back in Rwanda because there were no cell phone contact in Europe. So for me it was over. And then when I was coming back, my mind was fully focused to say, I have to go to go back to Northeast rebuild Operative starting again. That was in my mind. Just early July was the end. Someone told me there is a major person who is looking after you. They may happen to know that you are [....]. So give me the address. I went there, he put me in his car. Then we went to Manumetal. He took pictures around and then he gave me the keys. And he said now you are the CEO at interim. That's how I started at Manumetal in the first of August.

Chinny: Thank you so much for sharing that. You know, just a few things. Just because some of our listeners don't know your story. Two things I want you to touch on. First of all, you said you're on the national team for what, sports? You know.

Robert Bayigamba: Volleyball.

Chinny: Volleyball. Okay, awesome. But secondly, you know, how was the should I call it escape from Rwanda? How were you able to actually move to Burundi? You said people recognized you as, you know, a sportsperson. Could you just tell us a little bit about what that process was like for you and for your family?

Robert Bayigamba: Thank you Chinny. Great question. People who have had the chance to see some of the genocide in Rwanda have noticed that there have been militias coming to houses to kill people. And then from my own experience, is that on the 8th of April, remember, the genocide was triggered, let's say, by the crash of the plane of the president's, which happened on the 6 of April. So two days later in the morning. Group of militias came to my house because I was on the risk to be killed by the fact that I was a north east in an office practice or near the border of Uganda. That's where, in fact, the Rwanda Patriotic Front was coming. And I was accused at all by movements from that part of the country. I was bringing infiltrators. That's what's the main reason that I was really targeted. So that morning they came. So I instead of waiting them to come to my house, I told my wife, I said, look, instead of people being killed here, it's me they want, let me go. So I raised my kids as you can. I love you. Bye. So that's how I went back. I went up. I went out over the main gate thinking, honestly, this is my last 10 minutes to live. And then all of a sudden, one person among those that's Robert's from the national team, the volleyball. So he happened to know. And I quickly, instinctively I went to him. I say, What brings you to me? And he said, Do you have money, I said yes. Have you anything that compromises you in your home? I say no, because they were convinced that I had people, people in my house the infiltrators hidden in my house. Then he shouted, No, let's go in empty. And then he saw me stay closer to me. So that's how they came to my house and tried to find anything. That was my assessment. So they didn't find anything so I could now negotiate with them to give them money. So when I carried money from Kigali to our country, so I had really a substantial amount of money paying the salaries. So that's how God, get me that money to go through all those checkpoints, the roadblocks. I was giving money. My wife was getting out. They say, not you. I'm Robert. Somehow. Yeah, you can go through, but your wife has to stay. So I did. I had to pay money to say, okay, okay, you pay, but we I'm sure you're not past the other roadblocks and so on and so on until we get to the south of the country near the border of Burundi.

Ndidi Nwuneli: That's a great story, Robert. And it just shows, number one, your resilience, your tenacity, but also how God showed up for you in so many ways. Can you just quickly underscore some of those points?

Robert Bayigamba: You would be surprised because at that time I was not a very faithful person, just probably a good person. And then, in fact, honestly speaking, even so, when I cross the border of the country of the border, I'm going to to Burundi. I looked in the sky, I say, thank you Lord, and you put sports in my life. What I promise you is that I would never stop. But of course, when things were evolved, I heard many people close family died, my close friends. And I said, no. that, how come you God can allow that? So honestly, yeah, I would say that that became atheist for 15 years and it is only back in 2009 that something triggered the change. But I met a friend that I knew and was pretty someone drinking a lot of alcohol and someone from this normal life. Then he said no, I'm a born again. And then the laughter after. After laughter. Like I couldn't stop. I say you. I couldn't believe that, he was with someone who has the gift of prophecy. And then he told me many things of my past that I thought nobody could know. And then I was really blown away. I was astonished. I was surprised. And from that time, so that triggered my change. So I started to say, just this cannot be true. So how come he those my grandfather's sicknesses? They even my aunt doesn't know because my father passed away. So I never told something. And it was a journey. Since that time before the rise fall, rise fall. But truly getting up and up and up, getting involved in my church, getting involved in morning prayers, getting involve weekly fasting. So today I'm someone who every Friday I fasts prayer every 4 am in the morning I have felt the power of prayer and then give back for my Christian life community. I'm in charge of Apostolate, so I believe that I've received a lot I want to give back in. The has been an interesting journey, but every year better and better. And then. I strongly believe today that once you make one step God makes thousand.

Ndidi Nwuneli: I love it and I appreciate your vulnerability in sharing that Christian walk is a daily struggle to get closer to God. Having those practices and having a support network and essentially separating yourself is critical. So thank you for that vulnerability. I know that in your business you've made a point of honoring those who have survived the genocide as a part of your corporate culture. Just briefly, tell us about that. This culture of trust and dignity in the workplace and how you emphasized that in your company?

Robert Bayigamba: First of all, I believe from my let's say, my study corporate strategy, the economic policy major for my master, I always being told that human resources are the number one assets. So for me, and then that I am talking without my heart now as a believer. So that was is a manager. I have always focused my efforts to employees because I knew that when you have a good employee, when you help her or him to give the right direction, he goes extra, she goes extra miles. When do you have a great vision that you give them enough space to express they are even employee that are better than you [....] Right? This is the strategic decision that has helped us to do the right thing. Maybe I was wrong. That's very important now, since I have been, I grew a group that I still grow, I hope, by faithfulness. I believe that I'm there only as a steward. The company. They are families. They are people definitely who prays day and night to have a meal at home on the table and the fact that there. To lead, I always in the morning ask for wisdom to be able to do the right thing because I have people in my responsibility. And then on top of that, we have clients. We are there to do an added value. How and what is Manumetal stands for us to find solutions, better comfort in order to make furniture? But for me, it's not the furniture, lifestyle, the comforts. If we make a bed to help someone to relax. When you sit in a chair and you have 8 hours to sit on the chair for your work, what I offer is a comfort to sit better that it's also my way of seeing the company today is to convince all the stakeholders that are doing the right thing and to hear them to see how I can do better for them.

Ndidi Nwuneli: I love it, the concept of stewardship and the concept of blessing people and prioritizing their needs and serving them. Obviously has set you apart and now you own 100% of this dynamic company that you've just described as delighting customers and going beyond just infrastructure and furniture to actually creating and improving their welfare. Just briefly, tell us how you able to take over 100% of the company and the growth trajectory that you've experienced the last few years?

Robert Bayigamba: I'm firmly believe that the shareholder has a lot to gain trust to trustworthy. And when 94, just two months after the aftermath, one day I was just [....] my car was about to go, then someone was just out stating that to me. And that is what's happening. And you told me, Robert, I would like to say that I like you very much. Every morning, when you get in, you find out outside of talking because at that time people were jobless. I'm telling you, it was September, October 94. You can imagine was just the aftermath of the economy, was not yet getting in motion. And then we were able to raise the company that has opened the doors. So people were just around there in our premises in downtown Kigali. So we had two main central markets. So a lot of people was giving there in the morning saying, Hello, good morning, entering my office. Good evening. Say good night. Then when they sometimes they say, Oh no, boss, we are thirsty like you can you want to drink something? You know how it goes. And that was sharing what I have. I mean, I think you are a humble man. And for that, I would like to tell you that I know where during the genocide, people looted your finished product and four or five warehouses that are nearby. People were thinking that the day all this will finished, that we start selling those products as it is their own, and then I don't know is it the holy spirit. It is. I don't know. But I quickly went to the prosecutor general to give me I don't know how to say but it is a permit to opened everywhere. Then you give me two soldiers to come with me. And then with that guys say to one place open. Then we found our finished product, sold that place. So I brought back things for a value of 40 million francs. I think it is worth like 200,000 US dollar or even more. It was a crazy time, so it no complete chaos. And then my predecessor, I told you, he came. We took pictures. The store finished, product was empty so I could have put them to sell on my own. And he was in Europe. But instead what I did just lists of all the things that came back I sent to him. He was amazed. Surprised that someone who was from the former government is able to in that nightmare in that chaos, organized the fact that we can even restart with our own stock to sell it. And I think I gain his trust more than 100%. So then the first opportunity he said, I want you to be shareholder and I started with 10% share holder. Then in 2000 he was about to retire and he told me, Could I give you one year of first offer of yours, you buy. If you can have a loan or we sell altogether because a 10% someone is come would be so minority that you never have any more to say in a company or you find a partner. And that was that the adoption came in. So I found a partner at the time, at Rwandan now then who discussed with the owner and then they agreed to a price. And then he was so amazed that I didn't ask him for any. It was just one. And then the day after, after the transaction, he said Robert. Just to say thank you. I give you 15% more so than 35%.

Chinny: Yeah. Integrity definitely pays because someone else could have said, You know what? God did this for me. Let me sell the equipment and start my own business. But look at how, you know, being honest has paid off. And it's really a remarkable story from so many angles. We could, you know, look at this from so many different ways. But right now we're going to go into something a little more fun. I'm going to go into what we call the Lightning Round. I'm going to just ask you many questions and we want you to answer very quickly. Don't think about it too long. This is a fun segment. So I'll ask you a question. You can repeat the question, but in 30 seconds, give me the first answer that comes to mind. Now, if you could play any other sports, what's what would you play apart from volleyball?

Robert Bayigamba: I would play football.

Chinny: Football why?

Robert Bayigamba: Great sports? The King Sports in the world.

Chinny: The King sport in the world. Excellent. Thanks for that. Okay, so what is one thing that people should know about Rwanda?

Robert Bayigamba: People who know Rwanda to be able to develop their own home grown solutions to face the challenges we have.

Chinny: Oh, yeah. Awesome. You know, speaking of homegrown solutions, when we think about Manumetal, we know that you guys make wonderful, well-crafted materials. What's your favorite material that you've crafted at ManuMetal?

Robert Bayigamba: We crafted the main stage of the recent Commonwealth Heads of States Government. I'm so proud of it.

Chinny: That's awesome. Okay. One more thing. What's the biggest difference you would say between being the CEO of your own company and being like an appointed CEO in somebody else's company?

Robert Bayigamba: The main difference of being your own CEO of your own company is that you have the agility to bring the soul, your soul. And being able to convince the whole stakeholders is your [....]. So the soul is important. The company has a soul and values. So it's easier when you are the owner to instill that soul and the values within the spectrum of the company.

Chinny: You know, typically a business owner will talk about blood, sweat and tears. And when you're the CEO of your own company, sometimes it's very hard to sleep. So how do you find rest?

Robert Bayigamba: I find restful prayers. So exercises, physical exercises, music. I like gospel and soul music.

Ndidi Nwuneli: Terrific. This has been such an inspiring session. We really enjoyed engaging with you, Robert. We could listen to you for hours. Your story is just one of tenacity and courage, humility and kindness. And Chinny said it. Integrity. Integrity. There's no hiding place when you combine integrity and excellence, obviously, with the foundation being of faith. And as we round up, we always like to ask our guests what God is teaching them at this time, what they are hearing from God, what they are learning that they would like to share with the audience. So, Robert, what are you hearing from God? What are you learning in this season?

Robert Bayigamba: I hear I understand that we all are created to serve and to praise God, but to serve. That is my calling. That is what I heard. I have to serve. I have to. where ever I am? What I am doing to serve and to praise God, the Almighty, the Creator of the world and amazing wonders.

Ndidi Nwuneli: And is there something in the Word of God and the Scripture that has stuck out to you recently that you either learns or heard about or that you've read?

Robert Bayigamba: The fact that virgin Mary said yes, when the Angel Gabriel came without hesitation, giving a news, which is in fact impossible as a human being, to have a baby without having not met the man is, for me, something to say. When you believe and trust that God can do remarkable things, you just say Yes, and I will be here with you. As for your life.

Ndidi Nwuneli: I love that. Say yes to God. And the obedience. And sensitive to his guidance. And let him walk with you through the fire and through the storms, but also onto victory. So thank you. That's been amazing. Thank you so much. How can we be praying for you as a community?

Robert Bayigamba: I always ask what you call several spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit. Pray for me for getting more wisdom, Counsel, knowledge, fear of the Lord, understanding that is the daily prayer for me. That's because I know I knew I needed to keep going, to keep understanding more of the wonders of God, but also to hear him, to have the strength to continue. Yeah, that's what I would like people to pray for me.

Ndidi Nwuneli: From your lips to God's ears. And for that, I say, a resounding amen. Robert, we wish you tremendous success and impact and the continued stewardship of all that God has placed into your care. Keep making God proud in the marketplace and we'll be rooting for you. Thank you for being on this show. And thank you, Chinny, for being a fantastic show hosts. And we wish you all a wonderful afternoon, evening, morning, wherever you are. God bless you all.

Chinny: God Bless you.

Robert Bayigamba: God bless you